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Id like to know from users, what do investors want from C2 strategies??
Hello C2 Forum,
C2 for all its magic, is a potential minefield for investors. Ive been reading these forums and reviewing the majority of strategies. There appears to be too many incredible strategies, but actually all short volatility/vxx/tvix/puts etc. As smart investors know, theyre either a disaster waiting to happen, or consciously misleading!
Im a systematic and discretionary trader (11 years professional, buy-side experience) and i know what I am willing to risk or look for. But asking the forum here, what is an ideal strategy?
What level of returns? Is TOS important? What are your red flags? Length of track record? Optimal number of trades? Ideal holding length? Trade leader credibility?
A strategy that makes money weekly without huge drawdowns would be nice and very welcomed here! lol…Most strategies here are either have very infrequent trades like once or twice a month or lose money trading regularly. The strategy doesn’t have to trade everyday. Thats my 2 cents.
For me, it’s really about strategies that 1) show consistency over time and that 2) deal with liquid securities that can scale to the target numbers of subscribers the owner has in mind.
I just started using Collective2 (today!) with my “Monthly Winner” strategy, but have high hopes. At a minimum, it will serve as a disciplinary tool for my own trading in being able to achieve great returns (even if I don’t end up getting too many subscribers).
As a developer, I paid great attention to what subscribers sensitive to.
I would say,number one important factor to subscribers is drawdown.
Number 2 is return.
What I am not sure is the exact ratio that drawdown relative to return, for how high return, people trade off how much drawdown.
Thanks HowardHo. I agree. Once or twice a month seems unreliable and introduces too much luck, and daily trading can lead to over trading, or too much dependency on fill price. There is a lot of both extremes on C2.
That would be nice! I think that level of return is achieved by fewer than 0.001% of traders (just a guess).
A lot of high performing trades here are hiding a mountain of unseen risks. Most are selling vol, or writing naked options, or worse… writing naked options on vol lol. C2 doesn’t do a good job of showing even the ‘known unknowns’ such as the max potential loss.
Drawdown can be a poor measure for some strategies, it is after the fact, and I imagine many accounts here ‘blow up’ before drawdown has any relevance.
So my question was to know what do C2 users see as the best ‘quality’ strategies? The payoff you describe would make me more skeptical not less.
Yes, drawdown is after the fact, but there is no better alternative .Trying to get a precise measure before fact is unrealistic.
Don’t have unrealistic expectation for market.
Market is always with risk and luck is everywhere inherent in trading.
There is no risk free return in the market.
Nobody and no funds in this world can get that.
That’s silly. I ran the Grid for systems over 5 years old with less than 20% drawdown and double digit returns and there were only 2! This goes to show you that almost every system here is headed for bust and not based on a sustainable plan.
Yes. There are only a few systems that make money consistently month over month without huge drawdowns. The ones that make money consistently are position trading systems. Thats not much better than holding a good stock long term such as apple or google. So timing is extremely difficult and if there is systems out there that can generate profits monthly would be a gem. There are a few good ones here that trade consistently and have consistent returns but they are few compared to the riskier systems. There are tons of risky systems.
The question from 11 years experienced professional trader was
My answer is really smart for that question. Silly thing that professional is asking such question. On my opinion professional trader should tell me (subscriber) what is appropriate risk and achievable return.