I agree many of the most dangerous ones have small drawdowns - for now. That is why graphs or warnings are needed. I am fine with one account per person too, but to me that isn’t the real issue because there will always be more gambling trade leaders that filter in. Warnings and clear indication - not legal disclaimers but clear graphs or text to identify gambling systems is the more important addition I believe. One account per trader doesn’t stop a new gambler from entering and fooling a bunch of novices.
totally agree. basic problem is within. If you keep your expectations realistic ( and scale appropriately), I am sure there are a handful good strategies. Looks to me most people do not understand the risk involved and C2 cant be blamed for this. C2 is just middleman. Dont expect C2 to make the money for you. It is like asking NASDAQ or other exchange to make sure your trades are profitable. Homework has to be done by the investors. Any system that takes leverage is inherently risky no matter the track record. Allocate your portfolio accordingly and make sure your exposure to leveraged systems are a percent of your portfolio that you are comfortable. And look at the trade record!! See the trading behavior to make sure you are okay with that
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AlgoSystems,
You are correct, TOS does not guarantee profits, however the developer will be careful not to make rash trades, since it could lose him lot more than just the subs. I think the best way to look at the system is the consistency of the contracts traded.
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Why don’t all the subs stop trading NON - TOS systems. This way hopefully they won’t be blowing up their accounts over-night, unless the developer decides to blow up his own account in the process. This way C2 doesn’t need to regulate any one, it will be self regulating. The power is in the subs hands !
This system has danger written all over it ! Why would you trade 1 contract and then 30+ contracts !!!
Not sure. TOS is a good thing if it is coming from a good trader. With “wanna be” traders it would actually work the opposite that owner will not be able to make rational decision when his money is at stake. Martingale behaviour will not be any less in such case because no one does not want to be wrong with one’s decision/trades. It’s the psychology factor and don’t forget to take that into consideration
I remember reading in forum from someone who analysed TOS vs Non TOS systems to see any statistical advantage and conclusion was there was none. I can intuitively see why
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QFund,
How can a non TOS trader make rational decisions when he’s got thousands to lose in subs if his system doesn’t perform, so he takes the brave decision to go all in to recover his performance, if he’s lucky he recovers if not it’s bye bye to this system and on with the next. One sure way to tell is the inconsistency in the number of contracts traded, why would someone trade 1 contract then jump to trade various contracts for the next trade. Number of contracts should only increase or decrease with the balance of the account, in a rational way.
Thank you for the information.
Unfortunately there just aren’t that many TOS systems, especially if you have other criteria in a system (which I am sure everyone does). I’m only looking for equity index future day strategies (e.g. YM/ES/NQ) and the TOS systems that only trade those products reduces the field quite a bit.
Of the three systems I am currently autotrading (ES/YM Fund, B48 ES and 25K Emini SP Portfolio) only the last one is TOS and even that is TOS 50% scaled so that means the system owner doesn’t have as much skin in the game as I do. I also wonder if the system owner stopped TOS suddenly would I get any email notification or would it be up to me to notice that the TOS “seal” disappeared after some time.
LOL. Could not be less “slow and easy” if it tried. 15% in 1-2 days? + martingale!
These are exactly the kind of dangerous systems we have all been warning about.
A shame it’s only 15%, I need to work on that.
Have you considered putting more in the description, like your money management philosophy?
VixTrader is TOS. And drove his account to 50%dd. And even though he remains an exceptional trader in many ways, it wasn’t mentioned to the subscriber that this portfolio is a very small amount of his total portfolio. The most risky part… for which high DD could be expected. So… if your guy is TOS but that’s only 10% of his overall money… is doesn’t mean all that much.
I’d say though at this point that if someone is not TOS… given all the improvements made by C2 to allow mirroring from many reputable brokers… how can we trust them.
I guess C2 could work more on TOS and ask for a statement of funds from the owner. To see how much of their liquid assets is managed through the strategy. Not sure how they could verify it but I guess if people lie they could be made liable. Just another idea.
Also people should submit their passport proof of address etc. Then it’s not possible to con the system by coming back multiple times. We need to know who we’re dealing with here.
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That is true but there is only so much C2 can do - I don’t think its reasonable to expect C2 to be able to find out how much someones total net worth when they TOS. If they are here to earn money from subscribers (why else would they be here) then we can assume something about their net worth and if they are losing money then that should provide at least some comfort to subscribers - its better than the alternative of them not TOS.
I don’t think system owners should be able to TOS below 100% scaling though - that should the minimum. If they don’t want to put that much at risk then they can scale the system down, nothing forces someone to trade a system with $200k minimum capital instead of a $100k min capital.
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I agree with TroyFreeman. I think it would be wrong to ask for regulations. We have in C2, a great product and we have to contribute with our ideas to continue improving it.
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@GonzaloLoayza2, I don’t think regulating C2 was the issue. It was more an issue that bad developers/owners need to be weeded out and some ideas were thrown out there to try and resolve those.
C2 is a great place for new developers but at the same time its hazardess for inexperienced investors.
just an example - i am not promoting the strategy. A quick look at 25K Emini SP Portfolio tells me it probably is a decent strategy that seems consistent and went through correction unharmed and has been 2 years here. return of 35% with 20% dradown is very realistic. I look at the number of autotraders from the trade list - I see 3. So that clearly tells me there is no interest for “realistic” systems on C2. Tell me I am wrong!
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You are not wrong. Greed is a very strong emotion, it throws out all common sense. People don’t want systems that can make them money with moderate risks. They want systems that can fulfill their fantasies. When they sub to the 100% system, their endorphin’s kick in and they see themselves as the next bill gates. Very much like buying lotto tickets, and who on average buy lotto tickets? The poor and the dumb.
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