More than a week ago, I suggested that instead of offering free trials why not give free signals for a time so everyone could see how they were doing. There was no response to that but I went ahead and gave a couple signals to show how it goes without making a big deal out of it. It was just a suggestion after all.
Those signals were to buy 1000 shares of TNA on last Friday’s open, and add 1000 shares of TQQQ on Monday’s open (check the threads below). At the moment, TNA is up 4.9 percent or $3200 and TQQQ 6.3 percent or $4000 for the week. Up about $7200 on a subscription fee on my system of $9.99 a week, if profitable.
Call that a free trial for the week.
Nice calls on both, but to trade at the levels you are indicating here would be to commit slightly over $123,000 on two triply leveraged ETFs without explaining the rationale for your call. Personally that is an awful lot for most folks. Are these trades reflective of the type and size of trades from your system?
As a developer, did this benefit you? Did you get anybody to subscribe based on this versus what you were doing before?
Yes, these are reflective of the size and type of trades in my system since it began with $100,000 (and has doubled since inception to more than $200,000), but these are ETFs. They are scalable. Buy a 100 shares instead of a 1,000 or 10,000 if that’s your size. It’s the percentages that are important and it’s the 3X leverage that gives you the bang for the buck and the timing on when to take a trade is not only crucial but it is what I would be selling here to subscribers.
As a developer, did this benefit me? I’ve been here a couple of years and racked up 100% gains since inception and had a 49% annual return on the swing system I’m trading and the fee is $9.99 a week (but only if profitable). In my mind that’s a bargain no matter how big or how small any potential subscriber is, and yet I have hardly any page views (214 in all that time), let alone any subscribers. So no, I have gotten no benefit out of this.
Do you think I should continue posting signals for a while to see if stock-timing profits ever attract any attention?
Totally disagree with this idea of posting trades. If all of the developers listed their “hot” ideas daily the Forum would be worthless.
Let potential subscribers use The Grid to sort out the systems.
Michael: Thanks for the quick answer. As to why people go toward one system versus another is still a mystery to me. I have one of the most popular systems on C2 at the moment (60 subs right now and over 13,000 views in the last 15 months) yet I have done no advertising here other than a single post on the 1 year anniversary of the system. I have only one review and have not opted to use the “Featured System” advert here on the dashboard.
My system stats are solid, but there are other systems here that have comparable stats or higher returns. I guess what I’m saying is I have no idea what makes one system here popular and other similar systems go unnoticed. I plan to keep offering the 30 day free trial as I always have rather than give trades out - after all, that really isn’t fair to paid subscribers.
I have traded C2 systems for a number of years and I have learned a lot in the process. I mainly look at four things: Sharpe Ratio (2+), Number of trades (100+), Max DD (20%-) and length of track record (1 year+). Kevin’s system has good numbers for all 4 so I recently became one of his 60 subs.
I think the best way to make money as a system vendor is to offer a system that has the type of stats listed above, but in order to attract the masses it has to work for small ($25K to $50K) accounts. This is the reason I created an ETF version of my futures system, because the minimum account size is much smaller.
Gary
Gary, I subscribed to Kevin 19s system a while back and I agree with the attributes you mention when assessing a system. Other features many traders look for is defined risk per trade, trading single rather than multiple instruments, consistently profitable months, and a system with some transparency so they can understand it and feel confident trading. His system is the real deal.
Kevin-
Looking at your fill data for your systems…it appears you have about 10 subscribers live trading your Z version.
Let’s not inflate your numbers
Lee
Lee -
Not inflating anything - there are now 59 subscribers of which 26 are currently paying subscribers and the rest are still in the free trial phase. Odds are that about 10-15% of that group will subscribe. Go to Pangolin Z and click on the followers link - at this moment it says 59 followers and 13,950 views.
Not getting into a “whose is bigger” contest here, but I’m not trying to make Pangolin Z look like anything other than what it is.
I’m just going off autotrade fills…and there are 10…and sometimes the brokerage splits the fills so it could be 7 actual traders.
Who pays to play on paper??
His system is one that can be traded manually, since the orders are all placed at once in the evenings.
Gary
Times of the trades do not agree with what you are saying…
OK - I guess I’ll thank you for making this thread about my system instead of the idea of free trades that Michael had intended it to be.
Pangolin Z has exactly the number of followers, paid subscribers, and page views as I had posted. I personally don’t care about whether or not anyone autotrades it, just that they are able to get the trades and hopefully do well.
The system uses limit order entries based on the prior day’s price, which explains why they occur at different times throughout the day. Position sizing is based on a Van Tharp model, which sets a defined risk per trade (in this case $200) and adjusts the number of shares based on that limit and the ATR(20) of the specific stock. Profit exits are set each night at the price that would result in an intraday RSI(2) of 80, and are placed as limit day orders.
I could keep going, but I’m not really sure that it is relevant to the topic at hand - anyone who has doubts about these numbers can 1) go to the Pangolin Z system page, 2) check with Matt and his team here at C2, or 3) sign up for the free 30 day trial. That being said, I hope we can get back to the topic of the original post.
LOL.
Z is an easy system to trade manually, which I do.
I get what you’re saying…I’m just not into manual entries.
all the subscribers aren’t reflected in autotrade
