Hello, I don’t like the new “preview” site.
How can I access the old one?
There are several reasons for this, the main one is that having gotten used to a certain layout, I don’t like the fact it has been changed for no reason. Also, some of the statistics appear to be missing such as “realism factor”. Also the new version doesn’t appear to provide a link to community comments to the system.
I wish people wouldn’t keep changing things that are fine and work ok.
when you see the black login screen, there is a "use old C2" instead. It is often invisible, but it is near the new C2 text.
I have much agreement with you. I find myself preferring the old one. The new one feels a lot more like a beta than a finished product, compared to the old.
I agree with both of you guys. The old site is much cleaner and user friendly. My humble suggestion to Mathew and the C2 gang is to keep the killer looking homepage with the dark gray back drop and feed of that. Every page you click on should have that dark gray back drop(any chance of this?), Its very appealing to the eye and gives the site a very professional look. Go back to the old site layout with a few added dynamics like having a search feature to find a system by name, keep the new part of the order ticket where you can change a stop or limit in a flash, and have the featured systems stream on the homepage again. Once again, this is my humble opinion. Keep up the good work C2 gang.
I agree with both of you guys. The old site is much cleaner and user friendly. My humble suggestion to Mathew and the C2 gang is to keep the killer looking homepage with the dark gray back drop and feed of that. Every page you click on should have that dark gray back drop(any chance of this?), Its very appealing to the eye and gives the site a very professional look. Go back to the old site layout with a few added dynamics like having a search feature to find a system by name, keep the new part of the order ticket where you can change a stop or limit in a flash, and have the featured systems stream on the homepage again. Once again, this is my humble opinion. Keep up the good work C2 gang.
I agree with both of you guys. The old site is much cleaner and user friendly. My humble suggestion to Mathew and the C2 gang is to keep the killer looking homepage with the dark gray back drop and feed of that. Every page you click on should have that dark gray back drop(any chance of this?), Its very appealing to the eye and gives the site a very professional look. Go back to the old site layout with a few added dynamics like having a search feature to find a system by name, keep the new part of the order ticket where you can change a stop or limit in a flash, and have the featured systems stream on the homepage again. Once again, this is my humble opinion. Keep up the good work C2 gang.
Add me to the list. The main reason for me is that the old site is easier on my eyes since I use a lap top. In addition the stats on the old, though not perfect - in fact they need some additions like APR besides the CAGR and max cash drawdown besides percentage drawdown - are more complete. I find the old site easier and faster to navigate.
Matthew, I appreciate your effort but I wish you had allocated the resources to get Gen3 for Interactive Brokers.
I think part of the problem is, that the old site was the culmination of years of work and tinkering, to get it right.
The new site seems to have tossed out everything, and started from scratch. From what I can tell, it is not tailorable at all, and you are forced to use it when entering the C2 URL. I have been here awhile, and I prefer the old site like 5:1. I tried the new site, and I keep going back to the old.
Somehow, "First, Do No Harm" was thrown out the window, and we were shoved into a new place, where a lot of the suggestions were not enacted, but it became the default anyway.
For new people, perhaps the new site has appeal. But new implementations work best when they are evolutionary, but not revolutionary. I do not like the new site at all. I want to rearrange it to how I use it, but I an unaware of that ability.
This whole new site needs a few more months work, especially the ability to personalize the stuff, AND needs the site owner to apply the many suggestions. I gave the site owner a powerful and compact arrangement of the statistics box for example, but it seems to have been ignored
And C2 needs to NOT decommission the old site for at least 18 months.
Indeed. I’m not a software developer, but it was my impression that “beta” implies that the software is not production ready. Knowing that, why force it to be the default? For G-d’s sake, even the old site still has occasional issues. Vendors are paying listing fees, subscribers are paying subscription fees and putting real money on the line. The cavalier attitude taken by C2 (“I’m sorry you lost money due to our broken site, now help us debug and fix the issue”) seems to be a formula for destroying all the goodwill and credibility that it has spent years building up.
The default should be switched back to the old site until the new site no longer requires the beta label. It’s the professional thing to do.
It’s a fairly standard software-industry practice to label new releases as “beta” without implying they are unfit for general use. To take one example, Google’s Gmail product was labeled “beta” until very recently – that is, it was called “beta” even when it was servicing tens of millions of users, over the course of several years.
While by no means am I suggesting Collective2 is similar to Google (although I do wish we had similar market caps), my point is simply to reassure you: We call the new site “beta” because it’s sorta newish, and because we want to encourage user feedback.
In fact, the site has been under intensive development for approximately 12 months, and is not some crazy idea I hatched over a drunken weekend. The new site has been built with speed, stability, and scalability in mind.
While it is true that not every single feature has been migrated to the new site from the old, most important ones have been, and the few remaining ones will be completed shortly. In addition, there will be a great new “Grid” which people will love (or so I hope) added within a few days.
On a more general note, the small team here at C2 does appreciate feedback, and we understand that feedback doesn’t always mean unadulterated praise. But if your feedback is critical, it is much more helpful to us when you are very specific about what you don’t like and why you don’t like it.
All product design is about trade-off decisions. For us to make the most effective decisions, we need to understand very specifically what you like, or don’t like – and what you need, or don’t need.
Finally, none of your comments or suggestions are being ignored or lost. Everything is added to our bug/feature/suggestion database and is tracked and prioritized. Keep in mind that there can be massive amounts of software development going on behind the scenes which is not immediately pushed “live” or is not obvious.
Keep up the suggestions, and criticism, and even (may I fervently dream) praise about what you like or don’t like on the new site. We are working hard to build the most awesome trading resource available, and we can’t do it without your feedback.
Matthew,
As a Google skeptic, I wonder if it’s a fair statement to make that this use of beta is the industry standard (I don’t believe that Microsoft behaves this way, for example, and I am absolutely sure this is not the way it’s done in the financial sector; quite the opposite). Putting that aside, Gmail is free, C2 is not. When one doesn’t work as expected, it is an inconvenience; when the other doesn’t work as expected, tens of thousands of dollars are at risk. I don’t mean to be flippant or write here to hurl invective. I’m writing to help protect C2 as a user of C2 with real money being traded through C2 systems.
I apologize for not providing more detailed feedback at this time, but I have submitted some before regarding the beta site, and agree with over 90% of the other users’ feedback. I still check it every now and then, but I wouldn’t switch over from the old site until serious inroads have been made into the list you have logged so far.
Can you please provide some insight in regards to the impetus for your development of the new site and why you feel it’s important to forcibly transfer everyone over to it? There are two alternatives that could probably quiet much of the dissent here: either once again set the default to the old site, or have some permanent account setting that allows each user to choose his or her own default. If you want to go all the way in gathering feedback, you might even consider a user vote.
Thank you for your willingness to listen and your patience in dealing with all of these issues.
I have always had the C2 sign on page in my favorites. When I click on it I go to the old sign on page and get the old C2.
Is that not what you are asking for?
Rick
Exactly, since I often use computers which are locked down and prevent bookmarking. All I’m asking is that when I type in http://www.collective2.com, that I be allowed to go directly to the old site instead of automatically being forwarded to the “sneak preview” / “beta” site at http://preview.collective2.com (which, according to Matthew, isn’t actually a sneak preview or a beta). It appears this isn’t going to happen, so I’ll bite the bullet, as C2 is the only game in town right now.
Anyone can use the old site. There is a link at the top of the new splash page. It says: “Use the old C2?” Just click it.
But even so, my request stands. I’d love to learn what it is you don’t like so we can work on addressing your specific complaints.
"I wish people wouldn’t keep changing things that are fine and work ok."
As a general statement I agree with this very, very much. In case of C2, however, I remember quite some comments over the past years that the site looks looks and feels old / unprofessional etc. I don’t personally care for appearance, but it is very well possible that potential traders and subcribers stay away because the appearance of the old site does not properly reflect the true power and strengths of C2. "People don’t light a lamp and put it under a basket…"
This being said, I admit that I still prefer the old site too. That will change if the suggestions are implemented.
I’ve used both the old and the “new” site. I gravitate toward still using the old. It’s simple, yet great functionality seems more appealing and easier to use. That may be due to my age (48) and wanting things to stay the same?!?
That being said - not to bash C2, as it is the only game in town and awesome. . .but I was expecting a LOT more from the long-awaited new site. Seems just about the same, but with a “new” look. That may be the engineer in me that notices differences in functionality and new features versus aesthetics, which for me are a bit harder to gauge.
Hopefully the new look is what people want and will open this market largely for us. Still, I’d like to see functionality and usefulness to blast through the roof. Keep implementing the really good and good ideas!!!
Gilbert
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Matthew it seems to me the old site is more elementary. Easier to understand and find your way around. How much more is there really in the new site? Why not upgrade the old site with whatever upgrades the new site has. I believe because the old site is more elementary new people can grasp the concept much better. I bring to C2 many new prospective clients. Using the phone and sometimes in my home. Showing them all the trick ways C2 tracks signals. I am not sure where to start looking at the new C2.
Ok now I will go out on a limb here. From what I have experienced C2 could benefit by better client or customer service. I know you are working on this site 18 hours a day and at the same time not being very helpful to your existing clients. I personally have subscribers that seem to be reluctant to go to you with their C2 related problems. One guy asked me not to go to you because you have in the past threatened to unsubscribe him from the signal he was having issues with. We have seen you in the forum tell clients to leave the web site. Seemed odd you watching the forums sometimes brutalize vendors at the same time when you see someone mention a problem with C2 you go irate.
For awhile I was looking at the junk that goes on at Elite Trader. There are a couple of discussions there on C2. On a couple of occasions your name has been mentioned and not in a complimentary way. Word gets out in the trading community or any other business community. Word of mouth is the strongest advertisement C2 has. Knowing web site design and implementation is a very small part of your people related business. Customer care and skills are of the highest importance for C2.
Rick Haines
Rick,
Could you please shed some light on by what you mean with your statement: “Showing them all the trick ways C2 tracks signals”.
Regarding your opinion how Matthew treats subscribers I beg to differ. I have lost quite a bit of money because glitches related to C2’s software that were clearly C2’s fault which Matthew acknowledged and no apologies from him lessened the pain from losing money this way, however, Matthew always responded promptly and professionally. The only thing I can say is if those glitches continue I will have to restrict myself to systems which can be traded manually.
And let me repeat here again: A much better use of resources would have been to get a Gen3 interface to Interactive Brokers or some other quality broker who trades all instruments rather than develop a new look for the web site.
Matthew,
I haven’t had time to go through the very long thread previously discussing the new site to make sure I’m not double-posting, but in a very quick response, the design philosophy of the new site perplexes me.
1) I can’t control-click to open many different components in different tabs as I did with the old site. On the new site, too many items force me to use the back button to compare. I like to quickly switch between tabs to compare systems, not be forced to use C2’s comparative graphs or to hit the back button and forward button repeatedly to compare.
2) The old site is organized better to have most of the critical features I use at hand in the first screen. On the old site, My Analyst is right there in the upper left at all times, but on the new site, it’s under Find a System. Why is this not under Quick Links? Why is the message center not under Quick Links?
3) When I view a system and click Add to my… and then click My Watch List, nothing happens. The drop-down menu isn’t dismissed, there is no visible registration of that system to my watch list, like the animations that occurred with the big buttons at the top on the old site. Why weren’t my watch list items (i.e. my Recent Looks with a green dot next to them) from the old site imported to the new site?
4) The Quick Links area disappears/changes depending on the page I’m viewing. For example, on the Autotrade Performance Report page, Quick Links is replaced by an Autotrade Links box. There should be more consistency. Speaking of the Autotrade Performance Report, I previously asked that the list of trades per system be collapsible so that I could open it to see a total and then a subtotal for each system, rather than having to scroll through pages and pages of trades just to get to the subtotal.
5) Bizarrely, under “Sell a System,” I see “How it Works,” then “Create a new system” and then, presumably, a list of newly created systems, like “Absolute Returns,” “crazy guys system,” “Forex Tiger,” “Goober33,” etc. I’m not sure why all of that appears under the Sell a System menu or why it’s helpful to see those new systems there.
6) The stats, which have been discussed to death and I won’t rehash here.
7) The design philosophy overall is confusing, with changing menus, prevention of multiple tabs open, and reliance on submenus instead of easily accessible links on the side. With its wide margins, it wastes a lot of space and isn’t nearly as easy to navigate on a smaller screen (e.g. laptop) than the old site.
Look, I could go on and on, but you already have a huge list from the previous thread that I haven’t seen much progress on. I’m wondering what the impetus behind the new site is. I have to agree with Karl Aschenbrenner that I would have much rather seen C2’s limited resources dedicated to server stability and expansion of Gen 3 autotrading availability (count me in as an advocate of Thinkorswim) than this redesign project that at least so far has only added marginal new functionality.
As with many others, it’s back to the old site for me for the time being.
Thanks again for your hard work, but I believe a focus on server stability and Gen 3 autotrading will yield more marginal utility than the site refresh. Good luck and godspeed.
Karl I just showed them all of the things on C2 that made my signals look good. At the time my SMA signal was on the Best System Best Stock and Most Popular list.
I taught them searchs using The Grid that made the best signals show up. I showed them other signals besides mine for a point of reference and comparison.
90% of the people I have talked to in person do not know anything about trading so I did my best at explaining all of the statistics.
After that I have taught a few people how to trade that have never had anything to do with it in their past. Teaching them about shorting, margin, and elemantary things like that.
I have actually given talks to a local trading club introducing them to C2. I introduced a radio show commentator Vince Row to C2 and in return Matthew was on his show twice and Science Trder was given the opportunity to be his guest.
Rick Haines
You say you listen to our suggestions for improvement, but I have received no response to the following or other suggestions on this forum for improvement. I will try one last time to repeat it in case you have missed it.
1) In the old site, when we click on trade, we had the ability to have a default symbol that you used previously. Why is this important? It cuts down on lag or delay for entering in a trade for subscribers. Yes, I can re-type the symbol manually, but that takes a couple seconds which are important in futures.
2) You had a default symbol list in the trade management screen. Why is this important? C2 does not use the same symbols as my future broker does in which I trade real money. Therefore, if I want to trade a future especially when I starting selling my system on C2, it was very helpful to see what symbols your system trades. I don’t understand if this was already working fine on the old site, why is it so hard to bring it over to the new site?
3) If you could increase the speed of a trade when I post a market buy or sell and it appears filled on C2, that would be helpful. When I do a real money trade with my broker, fills are almost instant, where there is a small delay on C2. Also, maybe not as important, when a limit trade is placed, it takes at least a minute or 2 before I can tell if the C2 filled the trade or if I have to cancel and replace with a market order.
