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I don't want to brag. But


It does not matter unless you (potodds) and margincall are same guy under different username… ?:rofl:


Sorry @FarhanSaadiq

I was reading this post and other posts and posted as if it’s the one I started. My apologies. Doing too many things at once. Sorry for the inconvenience. It’s Saturday.


Never mind, but potodds and payoff sound very similar :wink:

Anyway good luck to you!


They both start with a P.


This is C2 magic. :slight_smile:


I believe @PayoffMatrix took the vast amounts of money he took from subs and ran into the sunset…lol.

His trading record was amazingly unprofitable and yet he garnered an en masse of followers at one point. He had amazing sales tactics.


Thanks @AlgoSystems

I thought it was a reference to something. I guess he was a real person? Vast amounts of money? How much are we talking? What’s the back story to this?


@AlgoSystems tagged @payoffmatrix.

Matthew Klein banned @payoffmatrix from the forums for 100 years. Until 3018. C2 can’t stand when someone says something they don’t agree with even though it’s a public forum. I understand being disrespectful to others but posting something you just don’t agree on and trying to regulate that isn’t what a public forum is designed for.

PM started this thread:

PM also responded to this post:

Matthew completely deleted the response from PM and closed the thread because “PM wasn’t here to respond”. Well PM did respond. It wasn’t disrespectful to any member here. C2 just didn’t like the content. All he mentioned with that response was he moved on to another platform and wouldn’t mention where. Even when people reached out privately asking where he went he still protected C2 by not promoting the other platform he’s now on and declined even in private to disclose where he went. Still C2 didn’t like his content. It didn’t agree with their view so banned 100 years it is lol.

That’s the story.

Matthew Klein hated the greedy post PM started. He couldn’t just close it down because it got so much attention. Later he did close it down and started his own thread about something completely different. Basically just shut it down for no reason and started another thread to divert attention about something very different than the intention of the post. PM was banned until 3018 for that. He isn’t able to respond and defend himself. But anything that goes against the business model of C2 is frowned on. Question is why have a public forum with public opinion if the only opinion you want are the ones that agree with you? You have to expect people have different opinions that’s what a forum is for. As long as it’s not disrespectful to others it should be free speech. Not this forum. Be aware of what you post or you might be banned for 100 years lol.

I’m sure PM isn’t THAT upset. He did VERY well while he was here.

For those interested, PM took all that money he made here and put a down payment on 10 rental properties and got a note for the rest. He has tenants in all of the units and has a positive cash flow. He structured the deal with one lender and was able to convince the lender to write the note as a package deal. He has a ton more things going on. He’s a very smart guy and has income coming in from several different ventures he’s involved in.


Thanks @StevenC11

This is getting juicy. I read both links but I think there’s a whole lot more to this story that I haven’t heard. I’m reaching for my popcorn. I want to know more lol.


I am not surprised, he is a master of the storytelling. Really sorry for his tenants.

Ha-ha, nice joke.


I don’t know the answer to this question, but I am not sure why you ask this, completely off-topic question here.

[You know of course, that C2 doesn’t operate a public forum. There is not even a FAQ or set policy of this (private) forum.]

It is interesting that PM is banned from C2 for 100 (or is it 1,000?) years. This suggests to me that to reliably identify a person is not a “difficult problem that Google and Facebook couldn’t solve so we (C2) don’t try to solve either”. [As I explained a number of times, G and FB use credit card info for this. Not a secret, not hard to implement.] Scam artists return to C2 not because C2 can’t identify and ban them. There must be another reason. I wonder what that may be.


How do you know so much about him and he’s situation?


Why do you believe that this is true statement, but not stories from the greedy offended trade leader? As I wrote before, PM is a great story teller. :slight_smile:



PM told me. He’s also “Michael Valtos” which isn’t his real name. He just moved back to Chicago after living in Asia for a while. Google him you’ll see and will be able to link what he does and C2.

#55 thats what i got🤣


Sounds about right.



Man, still remember people were arguing with me on the forum about he is one of the “top manager” we have on c2 and his $499 per month fee was justified.

Just much of shills pumping he’s system.


He lived in Chicago then went to Singapore and Philippines and is now back in Chicago. Aside from slinging indicators he has 3 separate “trade rooms”. All different names with a different name of a “head trader” running them. He has 3 microphones with voice change for each one lol and mutes them and talks into one at a time. I know these are huge trade rooms with hundreds of people paying on average $300 per month to be “members”. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of his people/subscribers from here are members of these trade rooms. They’re some of the very well known trade rooms.

I also know when he came here he was backed by some rich guy. The rich guy took some kind of cut and provided funding. I don’t know what kind of deal they had. The rich guy wasn’t involved in the trading or anything else here he was just the backer. Might have been for the trading account when it went TOS but I’m not really sure on the details. I just know there was a backer for something or silent partner of some kind. I think PM kept the fees from subscribers and the partner funded the account and kept the profits/assumed losses. I think that’s how it was structured. So when he was “TOS” he wasn’t really. Or he had nothing at risk when TOS. I think that’s how it was structured or something along those lines. I think the backer also had to pay him a fee to be his backer. He somehow convinced the backer to pay him to back him lol.

Now he’s involved with indicator sales and another platform “trading” like he did here and the trade rooms and the rental properties and a few other things where he partners up with different people/partners and creates different ventures. Not sure how much I’m allowed to disclose more than that. I do know he drives a very fancy car DB 11 and Range Rover Autobiography so he must be doing something right. Also goes to Vegas a lot to those clubs where he has 2 or 3 guys and 20 girls hanging around him. He sent me some pictures from some place called XS. Let’s just say it looked like a celebrity lifestyle.

We’re friendly but I wouldn’t say we’re friends. I’m trying to get some of that lifestyle and trying to learn what he does or how he does it. BTW the pictures of him don’t look anything like the guy selling indicators. He might have put up a picture of some random guy and used that for that business not sure. I do know he knows a lot of people both rich and shady characters/mob type people and has a lot of connections. I don’t know the extent of the relationship or involvement with these people. I’m sure there’s a whole lot more he’s involved with that I don’t know.


He was really smart…he got some followers who would testify he was the best and he would offer free passes to bring in more subs. He would probably then tell those subs he would do better next month and so on.

An incredible promoter and liar. This all emphases the importance of seeing how a strategy/person trades before committing to it.

In the end, he made an excuse for leaving C2 by saying the costs were getting too high to justify him staying.


Maybe it’s me or it’s just common sense. Anybody who is so good at trading they wont be on c2 trying to make a few thousand dollars. Or if we get lucky we get a good manager here on c2 every once awhile, they won’t need to promote non stop on the forum or offer free coupons. His trading and the track record will speak for it self.