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My best strategy for VIX - VIXTrader


Which feeling are you referring to? Outperforming holding XIV?


What will you do in bear market? The XIV price can go to one digit number…
Good strategy could do a great profits by selling Short XIV…
How you will behave with 50% DD?

I think that buy and hold XIV is not the greatest idea around…


Hard to know if you can control the DD when the market is down. Theoretically, no one can do this.


Talk about opening a can of worms haha! Now it is a fundamental question of managed mutual funds and managed assets like you find on C2 vs. index funds. That would be an interesting topic to open in another thread. However, I think since we are all here at C2 we probably don’t believe it is impossible to outperform the index.


If the time is infinitely long, you can mathematically demonstrate the market is unbeatable. For individual investors, it is wasting time to go after higher return by taking higher risk.


Are you saying that Warren Buffett was just lucky? Do you not subscribe to any strategies?


go back to read My post again until you understand it


A good strategy can be the result of combining several models and rebalancing them periodically. In this way, you could have, within your portfolio, for example, an aggressive strategy that includes XIV. By periodically rebalancing your portfolio, you would significantly reduce the risk (volatility) and the DD of your portfolio. Always, risk management and compound interest will be two very important components in the success of a portfolio. You just have to be very disciplined.


TaoLi2, first I get the mathematical concept that over a long period of time no one could significantly outperform the market, because if you are outperforming every year you will eventually become the market or very close to it - at which point it would be difficult or impossible to outperform it. Warren Buffett says this and notes that as he and Berkshire have grown, it has become harder to outperform the market. However, having assets in the billions is a problem that I think few of us have. Now he defines risk much differently than most people here would. For example, if a stock drops 50% it is deemed very risky. However, he says essentially that if I wanted to buy that company yesterday and today it has dropped 50% due to market fear or news that doesn’t change your evaluation of the company, why is it more risky to buy a good business for 50 cents on the dollar. I feel like we may be hijacking this thread and should open up in a new thread if you want to continue the conversation.


You understanding is correct. That is the model for infinity time period. There are tons of companies back tests all kinds of strategies. The conclusions are shocking. For a period of time, it is very possible to beat the market. Overall, you need to shift your investment distribution to the good company side. Even though, your potability to beat the market is slim. You can but hard. If the time is long enough, you have 0 probability.


You said:

“TaoLi2, first I get the mathematical concept that over a long period of time no one could significantly outperform the market, because if you are outperforming every year you will eventually become the market or very close to it - at which point it would be difficult or impossible to outperform it.”

I think that most of the developers know that any strategy has a limit of money you can trade and still generating similar performance… if you take for example the Medallion fund of James Simons, they generates on average around 70% per year but they are unable to increase the amount of money they trade in the last years…The same thing happening to Virtus Investment Partners (Symbol: VRTS)…

Theoretically, my strategies able to invest only $250M before I expect to see lower performance…

So the sentence that you are unable to beat the market year after year because eventually you become to be the market is basically only theoretical idea for algo trading…
The only possibility to make your sentence to be correct is to invest like Warren Buffett AND live 1000 years or more :slight_smile:

BTW, I think that we absolutely do not need to beat the market year after year…

We just need to do money year after year without looking at the market at all and keep doing it until we see the performance going down because we are too big (…and not stop trading after small DD :slight_smile: )


Actually buy hold and adding on dips in a bull market phase is the best strategy that can outperform any system capability out here. But C2 leaders just want to make a quick buck by providing any run of the mill, garden variety product, and repackaging it to make it glisten. Any system that returns less than buy & hold is a scam and every penny should be refunded to the subscribers.




These performance are after 5% management fee and 44% performance fee…



What the difference between VixTrader Professional
and your new Vixtrader Ultimate strategy?


The strategies VIXTrader and VIXTrader Professional designed especially to achieve 100%+ annually but still keep the DD as low as possible…

These strategies are good for investors with a medium or big a account and must use AutoTrade…

Many investors unable to follow these strategies and part of them sent me messages and emails telling me that…

I decided to start this strategy especially for these investors but anyone can trade it in any account size, manually or automatically…

VIXTrader and VIXTrader Professional composed from over 65 different strategies… Not all the strategies have the risk/reward and the DD is different as well…

One of them is the Ultimate which showing a great risk/reward… When I say great I mean to performance of 140%++ annually and DD around 18%, happened once in the last 9 years… The volatility of this strategy is higher than the first strategies because that all of the funds are invested or not… Trade XIV Long only…

Some people asked me and the answer is that my family funds are invested in all the 3 strategies…

If you are already a subscriber and happy from the results than do not subscribe to the Ultimate…

If you are already a subscriber and would like to try to achieve much better results, this could be a good decision to subscribe and let the strategy trade part of your funds…

If you are not a subscriber from the reasons of small account (before you try the Ultimate :)) or do not want AutoTrade, Ultimate could help here. You can of course trade the strategy automatically if you wish…

New strategy is like a new baby and I am going to take care of it very seriously like I am doing with my other strategies…:+1:


I am very proud of you, Robert!


I am always looking for strategies that can be manually traded. But C2 has given less and less attention to manual traders, probably because they make so much money on autotrading.

For the past several years, any emails I have written to C2 customer service with regard to manual trading have gone unanswered. Recently (12/8/17) I posted that the Trade Alert on the Dashboard stopped working. At least they answered the post but so far there has been no resolution and no updates, I don’t even know if they are working on it. The Trade Alert has stopped working many times over the years.

When I first started on C2 back in 2009, I subscribed and paid for many systems, some for quite a long time. I have pretty much stopped trading here thanks to the poor customer service for manual traders and only join systems with free trials to make sure I can successfully manually trade them. When the Trade Signal isn’t working, I usually can’t.

Obviously I have no sway here, they aren’t getting any money from me right now. For developers who want to attract manual traders, perhaps you could pressure C2 to provide better support.

That said, thank you for developing a system for manual traders and best of luck with it.


Those EliteTraders were right after all.
VIX crashed after the market was closed.
VixTrader subscribers were lucky to hold cash.

Are you going to use Options to hedge in the Future?


@aum108 I think this is an interesting topic and to me it boils down to if the developer is trying to create a strategy that is a “tool” for subscribers or a “portfolio” for his subscribers.

When I first started C2 I assumed that most subscribers were looking for tools to blend together to make their own portfolio. For example, assume you have one trader who actively trades Apple and only Apple, but they do it very well. That person may do that really well, but I wouldn’t want to have Apple or one trader have full control of my entire portfolio without a hedge of options should the trade go the other way.

However, if this “Apple” strategy is just one of say 10 strategies you subscribe to it doesn’t really matter as much if the Apple trader hedges with options because you have essentially hedged by making it only 10% of your account. In this scenario periodic re-balancing and asset allocation is my “options hedge.” If you only plan to have VIXTrader as a portion of your account you may not want options because they can be an unnecessary drag on returns. However, if it is a large portion the definition of unnecessary changes pretty quick.

The problem is some subs are going all in and treating a strategy like a full “portfolio” rather than a “tool” to use as a part of a portfolio. You can’t really build a strategy that is a perfect “tool” and a perfect “portfolio” at the same time.

I guess I am just saying I can see both sides of the coin here and I think it is hard to please everyone.