My system is not perfect, but I would think that it would be worthy of at least showing up on the Trades Own System leader board. Unfortunately, it doesn’t show up on any of the boards. Am I just biased and shouldn’t appear on it?
I believe only the top 140 strategies receive a rank on the leaderboard but I’ve noticed the same behaviour with my strategy. This might be a downfall with not trading very often. At one point my strategy was ranked 2nd then over a weekend it dropped to 80th spot. The number of daily views dropped dramatically. At that time it had been well over a month since a trade had been placed. The day after I made a new trade my strategy shot up to 5th on the leaderboard. There must be some kind of “time since last trade” threshold in the calculation that hinders strategies like ours.
Even worse, one of my new subscribers said they got this warning when they tried to subscribe, “Ethos Swing exhibits risk factors you should be aware of. Maybe you want to consider one of these strategies instead.” As soon as I made another trade that warning went away.
@MatthewKlein, is there anyway to look into this? I Submitted a ticket to the help desk (#162285) but never received any response even after a follow up email. Perhaps some kind of exception can be made for strategies that are meant to be longer term strategies and aren’t inactive. It doesn’t seem like a good practice to punish successful trend following strategies that aren’t trading because the trend is lasting months, especially the risk warning to potential new subs. -Thanks
Does the number of views move a system up or down the leaderboard? That might have something to do with the Activity Feed. When a system places a trade, it shows up in the Activity Feed, which I often use as a cue to go look at a system, along with seeing people subscribe to a system. So when you trade, you get more eyes on your systems.
On a related note, the Activity Feed will always say that someone “subscribed” to a system but when you check the system page, often they have only started to simulate. I wonder if either or both have an effect on leader board position?
I’ve read somewhere that popularity is one of the considerations in determining the ranking, but I doubt that it has enough weighting in the calculation to move a strategy from 75 spots in a day. It also wouldn’t explain the risk warning.
Hopefully we’ll get some clarification though.
Yeah I don’t know if I should be on the default leader board even. But when I go to leader board then to the TOS strategies only it really seems to me like I should be on there when compared to other strategies on there. I imagine that maybe the lack of trades is used as a warning that the manager isn’t paying attention even though I indeed am haha. It is in the name, Patience is a Virtue. When subscribing to my own trading with secondary accounts for my other interactive broker accounts I too got warnings about the dangers of my system and was suggested to subscribe to other systems instead. I didn’t like that, but with how many dangerous systems their are I can understand why they would do that. I of course think mine is being incorrectly characterized, but no method would categorize all the strategies perfectly. Bottom line I think my strategy isn’t showing in place that it seems like it should when compared with other strategies.
When my strategy was in ratings, 300-400-500 views a day looked at my system “PFSignal com” (forex). Now my strategy is not included in the rating, the number of views has dropped 10 times. The strategy has been profitable for 2 years, but I have no place in the ranking. Good logic is the lack of logic.
To be honest, the leader board only attracts sims… the subscribers will always digg deeper for a safer place to put their money…
In other words, the three things that count the most = Trading Age, Drawdown and annual return. And this only comes with hard work and consistency…
Shining Delta Capital
I agree that it attracts a lot of sims, but if you can convert only 10% of those into real money subs then it’s worth it. I want to get as many eyeballs looking at my strategy as possible.
Although, like I said before, it’s not so much the leaderboard ranking but the risk warning new subs get that will turn off a lot of people when they are ready to commit.
Good point Ethos, as always
10% good stretch there
It is weird. Just days ago I was in the top 5% of strategies and #3 on the TOS board. Now today I am not on any of the boards.
Nice job weathering the market sneeze the past week. Have a little of your vaunted patience, and I’m sure you’ll show back up on the lists. I know their “New Highs” list is only probabilistic, not determinative, in its selection of which strategies show up. It’s quite possible there is an element of that non-determinism for the other lists as well, sharing the love to upstarts and the like. I believe there have been days I dropped off the Leader Board TOS list too, but I don’t check it regularly.
Thank you! Haha the name is more a reminder for myself It just seems like the board changes so drastically. I don’t think that is their goal.
Note that I don’t have any more access to the internals of C2 than you do, but I suspect the issue is with this one scoring element in your statistics.
Avg(MAE) / Avg(PL) - Losing trades : your score is -2.404
I have found that the C2 ranks are really geared towards systems that have tight stops. For instance, if you had a 1 tick stop from your entry price your Avg(MAE)/Avg(PL) - Losing trades would be guaranteed to be -1. If instead you are swing trading with wider stops and you tend to let individual trades go through a drawdown and then recover some of that loss the score will become more and more negative. The penalty for this one factor in the C2 rankings is huge.
As an example, if I use the Manager Workbench on one of my strategies that is currently rank 61 and I change that one factor from it’s current level of -1.31 to your score of -2.4 it predicts my strategy’s rank would drop to 601.
Only C2 staff can say for certain, but hopefully this somewhat educated guess helps.
Also given the small number of trades your system has taken so far, its ranking is especially susceptible to distortions caused by individual trades. Effectively, one bad profile trade can completely tank your rank.
C2 staff or Mathew please correct me if my speculation is incorrect.
The stats calculations must include in progress trades, although I am stunned it would change that much in a single day. Your new score is dramatically better for the item I mentioned above.
Avg(MAE) / Avg(PL) - Losing trades -1.190
Yes that is my main point. It has done this several times now where in the matter of just a day it goes from me being on no board to being top 5% and then back to no board. I’ll stop posting about it since I am probably not adding anything new but I did want to raise the point that the ranking system seems to have wild swings that don’t match performance changes.