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I raise this issue because the current way to handle partial executions in C2 auto trading is NOT ACCEPTABLE for me.
Current C2 strategy places a MARKET order if a LIMIT order was just touched but not filled completly. This can causes realy bad executions in volatile markets. Due to this my subscribers lost real money and my system earned a drowdown of about 5%. This is MUCH and not acceptalbe for me.
Since this I do not feel well with C2 partial executions and I recommend my subscribers NOT TO TRADE my strategy with the C2 AUTOTRADING SYSTEM.
Actually I trade my own system directly with Interactive Brokers (without C2 interface) and there are also partial executions too. But most of these are filled completely one the same day before markets close. I just give the trade the time it needs to complete. This ist the case for about 80% of my partial executions in the US stock markets. My trading style produces a lot of potentioal trades each day. So if I miss one due to a partial fill, then I just look forward for the next trade and do not get into panic and force the trade to fill completly with a worse price than planned.
Let me explain an ALTERNATIVE how the C2 autotrading rules could probably be improved (I do this with my IB real live account):
In case of a partial execution of a LIMIT order just do nothing and wait how the trade will develop.
If the trade filles completely before the market closes, the you we a perfect LIMIT order execution.
If the trade is still incomplete at market close, then
a) CLOSE the partial position at MARKET CLOSE
b) DO NOT TRACK the execution in the trading system HISTORTY
The BENEFITS are:
The SYSTEM PERFORMANCE is not blamed by uncontrolable market executions when it using limit orders
The SYSTEM PERFORMANCE is also not influenced positively what whould also not be ok for partial executions.
If partial executions are closed at MARKET CLOSE then all SUBSCRIBERS will definitly make a little PROFIT with this trade. Wich subscriber will say NO to a bonus trade apart from the real tradig startegy.
That’s the idea.
Please check if this could be realized from technical or point of view, may be as an optional way to the current C2 rules so the strategy developer can choose his preferred partial execution “exit” rule by his own.
All subscribers will not make a little profit off a partial fill that is closed end of day because all subscribers will not get the partial fill. That’s the problem with limit orders, and it gets worse the more subscribers you have. Some will get filled, some will get partially filled, some won’t get filled at all. How do you audit and run a system objectively for a group of people except by doing what C2 does? The alternative is individual results are unknown. And again the partial fill problem gets worse the more subscribers you have. Touchy limit orders are not a strategy that scales well for a C2 situation.
One point was missing in my partial fill szenario:
If you CLOSE a trade with a limit order then of course the current C2 rules to convert partially filled limit orders to market orders is the only way how C2 can deal with this situation. I completely agree with that.
But my framework would be a good alternative if you OPEN a trade with a limit order.
When I said “all SUBSCRIBERS will definitly make a little PROFIT” then I meant “all subscribers which had a fill of the related stock will definitly make a little profit”.
As I mentioned in my first post: When opening a position the percentage of partial fills that stay partial fills until market close is negligible if you simply give the trade more time to breath. I proof this each day while trading the same positions with IB directly.
Converting limit orders to market orders to soon when OPENING trades simply burns money and draws down your strategy performance records.
I’m a subscriber to systems and a potential subriber to your system and I want to know how much money I would have made (lost) trading your system …in the worst case !!! If I ear more , then it’s even better but if I look at the C2 stats, I do know what I would have made for sure…
I don’t doubt turning partial fills into market orders hurts a strategy that depends on limits for profitability. But that’s the point. You can’t depend on limits for system profit that way with C2 because not everyone can get the same results. As I said before, with limit buys some subscribers will get fully filled, some can get partially filled and some won’t get filled at all. How is C2 supposed to deal with that? C2’s synchronization technology will make all subscribers match the model account, which means having to do market buys sometimes to match them up. If this hurts profitability of the system then maybe you have a system that can’t be traded by a group as is the entire point of C2. It doesn’t mean your system is bad but it might mean it’s not right for C2 without some tweaks.
I think IB has an “all or nothing” limit order type that won’t partially fill, maybe that would work better? Maybe what C2 does is fine and you are dealing with the necessary adjustment to your expectations that is required when you open your particular strategy to a group of subscribers.
I understand the frustration - partial filly on limit orders are an unavoidable consequence of using such orders. On my systems it happens very very rarely which is a product of how the strategy works. Just another cost of doing business. The long run always reveals all. Regards and good trading
Based on your feedback I plan to change my order placement strategy from limit orders to market orders. I can implement this easily in the trading software which I use to automatically trigger my trades on IB and forward them C2.
I guess market price execution should be in average the same as for limit order or am I too optimistic? Does somebody have any statistics on this?
I think IB has an analog order type called “Market When Touched” which converts a limit oder into a market order when touched. May be this order type would be a good alternative for C2 to have this as optional execution methods for limit orders.
