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Strategies that busted in the crash


#42

I was a subscriber of MC and convervesomething, both were the super top systems on C2 last year. Conserve guy went postal in his later trades that he continuously averaged down against the trend instead of being conservative, and I pinged him multiple times to point out obvious anti-trend trade he made but he never responded. I took loss immediately. Then he busted. At that time, I had auto system trading setup and i could see other 10-20 super big accounts linked to his system. Those accounted must have gone belly up losing millions of dollars.

Then I also quit MC system. Why? Because selling option for premium was not worth my monthly fee. Everyone could do it. I didn’t need someone to drive my car when I could drive just fine. But I admired his consistent performance. That guy felt sincere too, expressing how he came here because of a bet his friend challenged him, while he’s already financially free. He played C2 bug for several months to get 20-30% gain a month to attract attention, and then started selling for premium for 5% a month, in a bull market. Many people on the forum here warned it’s a risky business by selling options.

Now, we all see the unfortunate result, that many good folks warned again again last year here.

The market will bounce soon for a couple of days, but dozens of millions of dollars will vanish due to margin call tomorrow morning. Those are hard working people who bet on a system, and I feel really sorry to see this.

As for MCpro, he’s not a bad guy in nature, and he’s a smart person, but he made a wrong gamble here. He should not have got into this “game” with such high responsibility of hundreds of subscribers. He does not need that fee if he’s financially free already. He could have done a blog to educate people, for the good cause.

And, I feel amazed at the absurdly large amount of horrible systems published by “gurus”, especially self promoted systems in the forum.


#43

@SwitchCase, you are absolutely correct. I would love C2 to offer something different such as a direct trader to investor introduction and connection. Where proven systems are offered to investors and interviewed. Also, C2 can then provide monitoring and assurance of the risks involved to the investor.


#44

Does this sound like a good idea to bring forward?


#45

It’s crazy for the system Don’t Worry to let ES slide that far without an intraday stop. The loss is now showing a $50K loss. total unacceptable.


#46

Its just a total lack of responsibility. And considering how options premiums on many of the equities products are sky high right now I think its possible more is to come whether its to the upside or more downside


#47

Not using stops is absolutely wrong. Stops might have had slippage today but not $50,000 slippage. Totally irresponsible.


#48

https://collective2.com/details/100738045 Some of my friends discontinue from this model, now I know why he stops before crash like today. This is TOS 100% with a great performance last year.


#49

this is slightly off topic, but I can’t seem to actually create a “topic” for the purpose of discussing this. Anyway, outside of c2, there is a blog posting from a guy with a large account, apparently, who had a bunch of it in XIV . . .

UPDATE: What sort of ETF has a termination event that is triggered in the after-hours to absolutely FUCK everyone is owns it? Moreover, how many active managers just got caught with their pants down like me? It’s all fun and games until your fucking ETF goes to zero in the after-hours.

UPDATE: Apparently, there is a termination clause on these VIX products that permits underwriters to liquidate the product in the event of an 80% move in volatility, which would explain the selling. However, and I must admit, this is the worst ETF fuckery I’ve ever seen. I have 10% of my account in this, so I’m guessing I will lose 10% of my account by tomorrow.

If anyone can figure out how to create a “new topic” on the topic of this guy’s blog posting and the similar situation of thousands of traders and managers, that might be interesting . . . or it should be added to an appropriate thread, I guess.


#50

I mean it was going sector etf all year. I know hindsight is 20/20. I was shock that he open 5 contracts instead of 1 or 2. I allocated my conservative fund to this. The hit just took away all my gains for 14 months on this portion.


#51

Of course he close the ES futures at 200ma. The lowest print of the night at $2547.


#52

great thread to show what can be beneath the surface. If something is too good to be true, it probably is. Most of the systems caught up in this are/were more or less easy to predict or to be cautious. Some of them were quite surprising as past records did not show a bad behavior on individual trade basis. There will be a change in leaderboard considerably but in course of time new martingale systems will occupy it again. A minimum of 1 year of existence with > x(100?) trades would be a nice criteria to be considered for leaderboard. It might save a lot of trouble for subscribers. Not sure how many newbies would actually look at the grid to select systems

A good starting point for evaluating strategies is here - Follower guide to consistent profits

unfortunately this thread will be forgotten in course of time and the vicious circle will continue


#53

I’m worse than you - I opened 10 contracts. That’s relatively small compared to my account size, but I got dinged for sure. Luckily my pain point was hit in the morning when the sell off really got underway and I sold for 2718.2. Saw it in the aftermarket going down to, what, 2530? Wow, lucky me. I’m really surprised at Peter, thought he was much wiser than that. My exercise this morning is to examine the systems that made it through - either with a gain in Feb or just being flat for the month - and choose another system on that basis. VIX Tactical Trader got through this unscathed, and I’m impressed by that. But I will never, never again touch VIX products. I’m looking very closely at 4QTimingNDX3x. Was it luck he shorted the NASDAQ or skill?


#54

Futures Timer, LOL. This is his second incarnation at C2, and what happened is the same as the first incarnation. I believe he had a system ETF Timer that went belly up, and there were others he opened that went flat. He’ll be back mark my words. The key word you’ll need to identify him is the word “timer” in the system title, which is funny because timing is one thing he’s lacking.


#55

Here’s another one - Mozart. Must have been holding XIV over night? I’m surprised, because he has up to now been a very disciplined trader.


#56

Wow, Mozart hit a 48% DD? That’s been around a long time.


#57

U GOT MAIL just went completely bust.

Down 109.9% in Feb.

Rated the 7th best strategy on the Grid.

BTW, C2 seems to have corrected the cumulative returns for some of the strategies mentioned above that had big DDs yesterday but didn’t go bust. If you click on particular strategies, C2 now shows their total returns as (strongly) positive, rather than (incorrectly) negative as they did last night. The Grid, however, has been bouncing back and forth over the last 12 hours in showing (or not showing) their big DDs. I assume that C2 will sort out the Grid over the next few days. I’m sure that they have more pressing priorities right now.


#58

Seems to me these developers a) have no stop loss b) are not even watching the markets daily…lol


#59

Somebody just reviewed the system. Said he added to losing positions overnight.


#60

This whole drama is a big lesson in why you don’t subscribe to systems that add to losers.


#61

Can a subscriber to UGotMail confirm if he was or was not using stops historically or when it crashed? Also in case it is made private here is a screen shot.