The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.

A Strategy for YM gambler got a margin call!


That was just one query. All queries were directed about such systems. I have never been asked anything about a stable long term system.

I really like your idea of giving incentive to strategies that exists longer term


I am curious what makes you think this is a real track record on his website. All I see is some txt files which anyone can create. What makes you think this was a real track record?


Both of you are missing most important thing. It doesn’t matter if the performance on his website is real or fake. It is real, so what? What it matters is understanding futures trading (if you don’t understand, do not subscribe). Clearly, in past developer overleveraged account size and in heat moments, time after time broke his strategy rules.

Subscriber performance depends of subscriber decisions, how subscriber manages risk, not of strategy past performance. Every subscriber needs to remember when the time comes and strategy(ies) is/are 30, 40, 50% in red, what is going to do, how it affects subscriber account size and psychologically. Does subscriber know that tomorrow is still 6 contracts or it is vegas casino and number is unlimited?

Just remember, “past performance does not necessarily predict future results”.


It happened the day before, when the market was falling a lot.

Of course it’s below zero now, the market is still falling.
I agree, this is kamikaze-trading.


Ok, if you had good stoploss or able to watch the mkt 24/7 then do 10 contract on 50k. But non of these strategies or traders are doing stop or watching it 24/7. That’s why they blow up, or they only care about gain. Because making 100%+ per yr is the only way they can get subscriber fast and early. So they can spam forums about their strategy after a month.

Does the concept of using $50k to make a bet on a 1.3MM investment not register with anybody? A 4% move = you lost everything! On 50k I would do 2 contract max. Im currently doing 1 contract per $40k on ym/Es/NQ


I agree.

In the past I have said several times that even the best systems with the best track record can all of a sudden stop working. That’s why it is imperative that a subscriber monitors his systems closely and takes actions when it is called for. That is also one of the great advantages of C2 where one can get out any time one chooses to do so as opposed to hedge fund investments.



120K loss. :astonished:

Margin Call !


Dr Martin Gale never fails


Sigh…thats greed for you! When there is so much over leveraging and with returns looking so good in the past its pretty attractive to the uninformed investor to subscribe to this strategy and others like these.

Its pretty hard to maintain a 100%+ yearly return year after year but seems it never fails to attract subs.

His 3Fold strategy folded like a house of cards and now ES cache has done that too. I don’t think his other strategy will survive much longer if the market drops further either (already in a 70% drawdown).

Its obvious there will be another strategy brewing to replace these.


And I agree in response to KarlA. Case in point ZeroT this month. 96% win rate (116)% as of Friday close. This strategy had almost 4 years of winning data. Just goes to show how tough it is to have a winning strategy live on.


Yes thats right, a track record does not provide a guarantee of future profitability but I use a track record to gauge a trader/systems trading style and its ability to handle adverse situations. If it can steer clear of huge losses and even make a profit in adversity I would have more confidence in the strategy.

As we all know trading is risky and that is why its best to pick systems that trade conservatively with risk control and hedging if possible.

This developer’s systems has shown little regard for risk control and thats why during adverse conditions such as a bear market it will lose big.


I usually like your comments and endorsements but with your recommendation of the system “Sunny” you clearly did not follow your own principles.

I don’t know why OSUTAI, who is generally regarded here as an experienced and informed investor subscribed to this system who’s developer also seems to be a disciple of “Dr. Martin Gale”. Was it because of your recommendation or simply because the system is more than 6 month old, one of her criterias? A simple examination of the system’s trade history would have revealed its riskiness.


@KarlA, thanks for the vote of confidence.

I usually don’t like recommending strategies but @OSUTAI sounded in need of a replacement strategy and I just gave her some ideas BUT to proceed with caution. Why ‘sunny’ was one of those strategies was because he seemed to control his averaging down and had at least a 6 month track record at that time.

i agree that that was a premature recommendation for that strategy. But as you know developers change their trading style in C2 cuz they want to keep a high winning track record thats probably why he added more contracts on the way down.

I personally would not subscribe to any strategy that doesn’t hedge and C2 so far doesn’t seem to have any hedging strategies. Another type of strategy that I may subscribe to is one that does spread trading which there are none as well.

I did apologize to @OSUTAI for that mistake.


@KarlA, another way to safely control risk is to subscribe to a portfolio of strategies and have 70-80% of those funds allocated to conservative strategies that are not over leveraged.

Then the remaining 20% can be allocated to the more aggressive strategies.


I subscribered to sunny for not yet a month. But thanks for keep bring it up to over and over again. Why the hate?


Who is picking on whom? And that was not the first time:

“I mean I honestly wondering how you manage your c2 portfolio. You been endorsing these new systems, I mean some do well, some didn’t. Such as payoff matrix, and few other new one you said they are great or good manager. Then when they crash or don’t do well you seems to always got out before the crash or you manually got out and didn’t get hit.”

While I am trying to inform the community about some systems which have been successfully navigating this new difficult trading environment, whether they are new or not (and that does not mean that they will succeed in the long term and I am not endorsing them), you not only hijacked that particular thread but you assume that you have the authority to tell the community that one has to wait a certain amount of time before subscribing to a system.

By the way, you are trading a system which is far more risky than any of the systems you have criticized: VolatilityTrader. Anybody who trades an unhedged short volatility system like that runs the risk of total account wipe out in case of a black swan event.


Btw, do you know what approach and instruments does Volatility Trade right now ? Please enlighten us those specific instruments. Thank you


Sounds like 7 years of marriage :kissing_heart:


I`m not invested there, but it looks like in the past two months the trader is living up to its name > Volatility! :wink:


Ha,ha,ha … That’s a good one.