The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.
I am very new to C2, but I got really excited when I find this website.
I know many of you are experts, please help me. What are some good stock and options system for beginners? My budget is 25k. Also, I will eventually switch to Auto trading, but what are some good system that I can do trading manually?
You can take a look at my strategy, ETF Capital Builder, strategy #100008908.
It trades only Exchange Traded Products, thereby minimizing single stock risk. It has a 19 month track record with a 24% annualized return and a maximum draw down of only 9%.
Since it uses no margin, it can be traded in any type of account, including retirement accounts. It also can be traded with your $25,000 budget.
I issue trade alerts prior to the market open or near the market close, so it is easy to manually trade and doesn’t require autotrading.
It is also reasonably priced at $79 monthly.
Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future results!
Jim
Here is the link to ETF Capital Builder:
Look in SPYderMax and do your due diligence.
It depends on your preference.
If you like low risk low return, above mentioned ETF CAPITAL BUILDER is good.
If you prefer high risk high return, my strategy “Futures Cat” is good.
Generally, the higher return, the lower max drawdown, the better.
You can go to grid to find strategies that fit your preferences.
https://collective2.com/grid
Thank you, Jim. I am looking into your system. Thank you so much for your suggestion!
Thank you! Your system looks really good, Sharpe ratio is 6.06, which is so amazingly high. I am so impressed.
Why you never should trust advice of developer. They do not see anything besides subscription price.
wmwmw, how he can follow your strategy without autotrade as he said “what are some good system that I can do trading manually”?
Marketing uber alles (above everything).
Thanks for your suggestions. Will try to do my due diligence, there are so much I feel like I need to learn.
Things to look at are
costs …number of trades a month, other fees etc.
CAR/ MAX DD Annual return divided by max draw down.
or just look at the Sorontino ratio.
BEWARE of systems that buy more several time as the trade goes against them.
If you are going to trade it manually…take a free trial in ANY system and find out what will actually work for you.
The time of day the signal comes out is important.
Get a simulated account at your broker and actually put in orders.
Exactly. There is an old saying that anything with a Sharpe above 1 for long periods of time that isn’t taking convexity risk is a rare find.
I prefer MAR as a quick rule of thumb vs Sharpe, and I would suggest anything with a MAR above 1.5 over along period of time that isn’t taking convexity risk is a rare find.
When looking at years of returns, the best hedge funds don’t even close to Sharpe ratio of 6. At the very top you can find a few with Sharpe over 3. Realistically, anything that can sustain a Sharpe ratio over 1.5 is very good.
That chart is meaningless, since there are only a few that have over 2 years life in C2 strategies, and only a couple over 3 years.If what you want to say is that only strategies with years of long period are worth to compare, then you disregard 95%+ C2 strategies.
I can’t understand the thinking of some subscribers.
My strategy is up 20%+ for the current month and two of my subscribers are up like 20K, another up 4K, they only paid $150.
Not many subscribers are interested because my strategy doesn’t offer free trial. Once I had a strategy that offer free trial, tons people subscribed to it.
Now you want to chase free trial and discount, how much you save? Are your savings up to 4K-20K a month?
Some subscribers just can’t calculate.
Quantec,
Nice chart! It does graphically display how a high Sharpe Ratio is correlated to the age of a system (essentially reversion to the mean). I also did some research and looked at all systems sorted by age. Of all systems on C2 ranked by age (oldest to newest), there are none that have a Sharpe Ratio of at least 2 until about 2 1/2 years is reached. Another thing that I also noticed is that of all systems on C2, there are only 36 systems older than 2 years. I guess this means there are a lot of newer systems or many systems are just abandoned or killed. Just something to think about.
Do you really think that subscribers want to give their money to manage to person with personality like yours? Think twice and look in the mirror.
My point is:
Just as high Sharpe Ratio is correlated to the age of a strategy, in the same logic, the high return is also correlated to the age of a strategy.As the time is getting longer, Sharpe Ratio is getting lower,and the annual return is also getting lower.
Of all strategies that were over 2 1/2 years older, none of them were making higher than 51% annual return.
So if you are denying the reality of a high Sharpe Ratio, you are also denying the reality of a high return.
If you judge that, by C2 statistics, any high Sharpe Ratio is an illusion, then also by C2 statistics, any annual return higher than 51% is an illusion. So if you are questioning strategies’ high Sharpe Ratio, you are also questioning all the strategies’ performance with annual return higher than 51%.
wmwmw,
EXACTLY! Just about any strategy listed on C2 that is only a few days/months old can display results that are wildly outsized from the averages. Case in point, There is a strategy on C2 with only 21 days trading history and it has a compounded return of over 905,000%!! Hopefully, no one is under the impression that this type of return is sustainable. It would be good if C2 would institute some minimum number of trading days before a system is ranked on the Grid. That would make these returns much more meaningful than the unsustainable, outsized returns that are generated by some systems now with limited trading history, and also reduce the number of new systems with limited trading history that clog the top of the rankings. Also, I am not DENYING anything. I am just sharing the statistics as they are presented here on C2. You are free to make any assumptions regarding that data as you please. Peace!
