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Most expensive strategy?

Just browsing some strategies, and suddenly noticed this one:

Monthly fee of a whopping $1000,- But from the current statistics, it is well worth it! And it even has subscribers. If they have been with the strategy from the start, they turned 15k into over 200k in only 6 months!

Having subscribers at this price level and suggested minimum capital, it also means there are some serious investors on C2 (as @MatthewKlein has pointed out several times, but never really convinced me so far because there was no way of seeing it myself)

Added to watch list, see where that goes

A 1666.5% return with a 28.5% drawdown, quite a feat indeed.

I’ve been subscribed for almost a month now, and it’s already the best investment of my life. I didn’t really believe it at first (and a part of me still doesn’t), but the numbers are very real.

It’s worth well beyond the $1000 subscription fee. I’m really hoping he sticks around in the long term. I feel like high-performing strategies like this should be percentage based. I’d happily pay +10% of profits.

Happy to share any additional info with folks. Feel free to reach out personally anytime.

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That sounds great indeed! It’s just that the suggested minimum capital is pretty steep. Looking at the trades, he must have some strong nerves :wink:

Also, I totally agree that it would be a great idea to have some performance based fee.

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Yes the capital is a bit high, but required due to the number of trades he makes daily. He usually has many positions open at the same time.

What happened to Gusher now? Don’t quite understand

The inevitability of these types of strategies…crashed and burned! :joy:

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Well, the strategy started with $5000 and now the equity stands at $26,235, 7 months later.
So, technically, it did not “crash and burn”, despite the big recent drawdown.

Also notice that people are still subscribing ($1,000 a month) to trade this C2 system.

That proves, once again, that each trader is different as far as risk tolerance is concerned.

Most people subscribed to this strategy before it crashed …if you noticed that they subscribed mostly prior to july 16th. But there were some after the 16th …I guess bottom fishing…lol?

Losing 80% of your capital in a short time is not exactly good risk tolerance…lol

But Like you said to each their own…I really don’t understand those that subscribed after the drop. Maybe they aren’t actually autotrading the system?

As I typed this comment, the trade leader has already reduced the strategy scaling…seems like a veteran C2 trade leader to be able to know how to do that… :thinking:

Obviously he’s made more money from his fees than any of his subs made thru his trading results.

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“Bargain hunters” I would say. :wink:
The same exact thing happened with “Just Forex trades”, if you recall.

So far three (3) traders subscribed (and paid 1 grand each) AFTER the drawdown in fact.

In reality the system never lost a dime from its initial $5K trading capital, see for yourself.

Not sure about that, AlgoSystems.

The system started with 5 grand and made over $125K (pure profit) a few months later. Maybe some subscribers (and perhaps even the system developer) took that 125 grand and put it in their bank account, who knows…

I like the way how you always think and talk good about trade leaders. Even about trade leaders like this. I call it trade leader bias. Your scenario for sure is possible with some probability, but with 95% confidence I believe into the following:

  • trade leader has no his own money behind the system, otherwise it would be posts about this fact on the forum on a daily basis or it will be TOS certified.
  • very first auto-trader connected on 3/20 started from 41.2k equity. So there is a very-very-very small chance that somebody put 125k to the bank. I think realistic case, if he get out of the system after first drawdown he got +40k, if he waited till the end, he lost -20k.
  • I think that most of subscribers started at around 70-80k equity. Therefore in average they lost around 50k-60k per sub including system fees.
  • trade leader put around approx 4 mo x 1k x 8 subs/month average = 32k into his pocket
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Please note that Trade Leaders receive 50% of the subscription money, the other half goes to C2.
More comments tomorrow, good night.

Unbelievable what a drop! All caused by just one single losing trade. That’s what surprises me every time. Do they keep adding to a losing position or is there no hard set stop loss? How can even these successful traders still make such beginner’s faults sometimes that can wipe out an account.

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hmmm… what could have been the culprit???

Not saying you can’t use it, but these are the risks when using so much especially if you are not diversified.

It would be nice if there was a way the subscribers could know the future max leverage a leader could use - preferably by having leaders commit to a max and requiring a waiting period to raise it. A waiting period long enough for subs to be made aware. For me this is the number one reason I don’t feel comfortable setting some high risk capital to follow another strategy and leaving it alone to run for even a day or week without constantly checking. Surely there are some that have the same concern.

As of now a strategy can immediately go from holding a diversified portfolio to holding 60 times leverage in one asset. The only warning a sub would get it having a trade alert. With leaders being able to be anonymous and unlicensed there is no recourse to prevent this. No one worries about a mutual fund doing this because there are limitations and recourse for bad behavior.

It would be nice if we could at least have limitations that take a week to change.

Just a request @MatthewKlein

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Its unfortunate but based on this strategies historical trades the strategy always used an average in method based on ‘levels’ it seemed. But unfortunately this one trade seemed to either have no stop or a very large stop. But by adding stops the strategy returns would probably have been different too.

Definitely, a max leverage for the entire portfolio and another per asset would be incredibly helpful (as defined by time of order entry, obviously the actual leverage fluctuates with market prices). It would also help protecting against error when manually entering orders from an unconnected system.

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Did anyone see the rise and subsequent flame-out of Accredited? Only took a few days…

Too bad C2 doesn’t keep the old charts of a system taken private available for public viewing.

Are you talking about these ones?

https://collective2.com/public-activity/130092281

This one: 2020-07-15 09:57:20 ET Create new strategy 130092366 Accredited

I had a PM from the developer offering a free month on 7/22… I put it on SIM just to take a look… within 2 trading days the strategy had about a 90%DD… it was quickly taken private, charts & trade info removed from C2, etc.

Edit: I just looked, and it’s back up… strange indeed…

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Look at this trade. the leader left this transaction opened for 4 days. Intentionally dropping the ball?

7/9/20 3:50 QCLQ0 CRUDE OIL LONG 28 40.41 7/13 15:35 39.98 18.93% ($12,194)

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