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Most strategies are too expensive

#1

I think many of the strategies are too expensive. I don’t think half of the people in this platform have 100000 usd to invest. I sadly found just one strategy JARBA with the minimum amount of investing of 5000 usd. I DON’T UNDERSTAND why most of the profitable strategies are nearly unreachable by the common people.

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#2

Trading is a tough business. You need a lot of money to just to make a little. It’s possible to do it with 5k, but the odds are highly unlikely such an account would succeed. (like taking 5k to 500k) Usually, with less than 100k, it’s just better to invest in quality stocks for long term gains.

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#3

I’ve just introduced a new stock rotation system that trades 3 stocks in the Nasdaq 100 using a rigorously tested (the system period was from 12-31-99 to present, so it includes both the dot.com crash and the financial crisis) momentum ranking methodology. The ranking is run every Friday after market close, with trades transmitted over the weekend for Monday’s open. I just started it here, but I’ve been personally trading it for the last 6 months and I think it should be interesting. During times of market stress the system will rotate into a defensive U.S. Treasury ETF (either ‘IEF’ or ‘TLT’).

This system can be traded with less than $10,000, and I don’t recommend margin use. It’s brand new, (and I’m brand new to C2), so keep an eye on it if you like.
Kindest Regards,
Tony Roylance

#4

I am posting for @AnthonyRoylance (since he’s new to C2) in case anyone is interested the strategy link as as follows:

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#5

Thank you very much AlgoSystems! I have entered a strategy description (2 days ago), but it hasn’t shown up. I can give a little background of myself and the system if that’s ok. I’m a registered investment advisor in St. Louis, MO (series 65) and an IAR for Capital Management Services where I develop trading models. I also work as a quantitative analyst/contractor for the Sherman Sheet. I use Amibroker for my testing and I use Norgate Premium data that is audited and dividend-adjusted to account for survivorship bias. I can provide backtest statistics from 12-31-1999 to present for anyone that’s interested. Feel free to message me with any comments or questions about the system.
Regards,
Tony

#6

In the past a trade leader could suggest an amount of money required to trade the strategy. At some point, C2 replaced this amount with the so called ‘suggested minimum capital’, which in my case, was way higher than the amount I started with.

My strategy always trades exactly one E-mini S&P future, yet the suggested minimum capital is $25.000,- From what I understand, this is partly based on max drawdown (and possibly many other factors) which was indeed significant at one point, but still well within my initial $10.000,-

So, it’s probably better to dive into the trading details, the p&l chart and trader profile to see how much capital is required to trade that strategy.

Regards,
Raoul

Greed and Fear: https://collective2.com/details/112840355

#7

My strategies are inexpensive.

  1. Strategy “PFSignal com” (forex). Costs per year 79 * 12 = 948 USD. With a trading account of 10 000 USD, this is only 9.48%, all that is higher is your profit, for the last year the profit of the strategy was 80%.

  2. Strategy “Myfxmap com” (currency futures). Costs per year 199 * 12 = 2 388 USD. With a trading account of 50 000 USD, this is only 4.78%, all that is higher is your profit, for the last year the profit of the strategy was 30%.

  3. Strategy “MAP Capital Investment” (forex). Costs per year 49 * 12 = 588 USD. With a trading account of 10 000 USD, this is only 5.88%.

If your bill is less, expenses will be more, if your bill is bigger, expenses will be minimal. I always make a discount to my new customers for 2 months 50%. I consider the expenses for the client even minimal by my forex strategies.

Michael

#8

Sorry to hear that! Right now Im on the process of evaluation for C2 Star Certification so I cant decrease the price while on the evaluation. If I reach the goal I want to help everyone achieve the goal Ive been working for abt 4 years and Ill decrease my suscription price. My strategy minimum investing is normally $10,000 USD, but I could design the strategy for minimum investment of $7,000 and thats most reachable for common people. Ill put strict stop losses, and Ill be sure to test the trade before posting it, also Ill post the stop loss visible, and for people starting even if they see I bought 2-3 contracts, I strictly reccomend them to stick with 1 contract only. I only trade Crude Oil Futures, as I think this is the best market because of volatility, and I dont even see the news, I only do technical analysis and thats all I need for succeed, but most of all Patience is the Key!.

Yes its a referral, but if I post it is because they helped me a lot to redesign my strategy and be profitable in a consistent manner. I think after you practice with www.tdameritrade.com on their paper money account platform called thinkorswim, you can go ahead and check Topsteptrader out. You pay a monthy fee for the time it takes you to complete the money goal and they fund you with a futures account. Mine is $50,000 funded account 80% of the gains are mine, 20% are theirs, you need to follow strict rules, and thats good bc it helps you get discipline, and this webpage helped me be consistent on my trades, be disciplined and over all have patience. I only make one trade a day, and some days I dont trade, but the days I trade I profit $300-$500. So if I trade only 8-12 days a month thats already a very good extra income. Also even if you had $15,000 to invest always trade 1 contract if you are starting. Greed is the worst thing that I had to manage to become profitable. Also I wanted to ask you what do you think it would be a good monthly price suscription? My strategy name is Crude Oil Day Trading. Have a great day!

#9

The odds are unlikely to succeed with an account of $5,000 because if you are starting you first need the experience, in reality it doesnt have anything to do with the quantity of money, is about the experience people need to achieve in order to make their accounts grow. Even with $5,000-$10,000 an experienced trader can succeed, but people need the experience and psychological skills first in order to do it, and that can take from 2-3 years of practice and experience, and of course they need to invest with money they can afford to lose, and see that money that they lose the first 2 years as an investment for their education, of course they can minimize the losses by learning the skills on paper money accounts, but the psychological aspect is something very personal and unique of every individual so thats what people need to work most on. A book that greatly helped me is called The Disciplined Trader by Mark Douglas. Have a great day!

#10

That’s right if you are a trader. But I meant the investor side.

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#12

If you want to invest for example in Crude Oil, with only $20,000 you can start, only 1 contract at a time, trading the daily chart when it breaks support or resistance, diagonal and horizontal. Ill probably implement positional trading of 2-7 months hold too on my strategy.

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#13

RaoulSuurmeijer,
I noticed this with my strategy as well, I think C2 looks at your current balance ( say its $25000 ) and you only trade 1 contract, this means in order for a new comer to follow you exactly would require minimum $25,000. If your balance increased to $30,000 and you still only trade 1 contract then the minimum requirement will go up to $30000. Now say at $40,000 you trade 2 contracts, the minimum requirement will drop to $20,000 since this would enable the new comer to trade 1 contract instead of the 2 contracts you trade.

#14

@Biks Hmm not sure. At the time my balance was somewhere at $12000 or so. I had many mails going back and forth about this and also about the percentages. Say, the balance goes from $10.000 to $11.000 that’s 10% (excl costs etc). If it goes from $11.000 to $12.000 the next month, this is recorded as ‘only’ 9%. Trading still only one contract, this looks a bit ‘unfair’ since the usd performance is the same. I don’t want to trade bigger in the model portfolio for the exact reason more investors are able to follow. But this was all financial regulations, no exceptions. At some point (when the belance reaches $20.000) I am forced to trade 2 contracts, with an even higher suggested minimal capital. :unamused:

#15

What am saying is if people are to follow you on auto-trade and you only trade one contract then they will have to match your account balance as you currently have, otherwise they will be out of sync

#16

@biks I don’t think balance needs to be in sync. Only the trades that take place after the investor connects (possibly the running positions as well) get synced to the connected investor. Of course, the investor should have enough funds to follow those trades, but that could very well be less than the ‘suggested minimal capital’.

#17

Hi Jose, I agree with your thought process; maybe there will be a way for Collective2 admins to be able to scale a lower or higher share count if possible, but as for the price of subscriptions I think that is totally out of their control as a lot of portfolio managers have overhead expenses even if their independent. I personally saw this and priced my strategy accordingly for $10/Month comparative to my initial capital and I do trade this strategy in my real brokerage account. As users of collective2 and the owners, it’s probably best to improve the service via attractive tweaks to make the userbase bigger, which is a plus for everyone.

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