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Price increase for system "WaveRunner"


#1

In response to the C2’s recent price move, I am increasing the sub fee from $159 to $239. The extra money subscribers paid will transfer to C2, not me.

The price increase will be effective on 8/12/18. Any current subscribers and new subscribers joined before 8/12/18 will enjoy the locked price of $159 for 12 months. After 8/12/18, all new subscribers including who previously subscribed will pay $239.

WaveRunner is and will continue to be the best system on C2.


#2

Who else is increasing sub fees?


#3

Lol…thats up to you @WaveRunner why ask others since each system is different. There are those like @Map that have decided not to increase right away.

If you think your system is worth the price increase then go ahead. But you have to realize the pros and cons of increasing your sub fees and it will also depend on how much of an increase.


#4

I did not increase the price. Left until January 1, 2019 at the same level. I will index next year. -)


#5

The below popes up on your strategy page:

Community Risk Warning

Based on analysis of trading style, and additional community feedback, this strategy exhibits higher risk than is visible in its track record.

Among other things, this strategy exhibits:

  • Hidden Tail Risk. The strategy has hidden “tail risk.” This is the risk of unlikely, but catastrophic losses. Some strategies with tail risk can perform well for long periods of time, even years, but all gains achieved (and much more) can be lost quickly when the unlikely event occurs.

#6

It seems that one can avoid the “hidden tail” risk by simply not shorting options which is the default setting anyway when one sets up auto trading. The system has performed well since it popped up on C2, of course, the initial trades before he had subscriber are bogus but many others took also advantage of the spread before there were any subscribers and this seems to be primarily a flaw of the C2 platform.


#7

Closed trades equity for futures only, removed all option trades -

Started from 50k, 64% max dd. :slight_smile:


#8

oh boy…another strategy that is destroying its clients trading accounts! Down 200k from last friday. :thinking:

I’m wondering how many other overleveraged strategies are going to be destroyed and taking along their subs with them?


#9

Oops…not from friday but from wednesday…lol


#10

@JITF 's analysis was useful. Doubt many saw this. 30% DD currently.

Love this. Just love it. So humble.


#11

ah, is that why he went private ?


#12

It doesn’t look like Waverunner is private…


#13

Looks like waverunner has recovered some since the markets have bounced back a little.

This system is way overleveraged. I think the system would be more sustainable if the sizing was reduced.


#14

Guess the wave outran him this time. It’s a volatile month, worry about your algorithm not being overleveraged, or a bad november might just call you quits.


#15

I’m curious as to which trade went sideways on Waverunner, and whether those losses were realized.


#16

System always looked like a crash waiting to happen. Despite the 168 hour delay, all but one trade has been accounted for. It was 50% dd, now about 40%. Perhaps someone with more info can answer if it’s open or closed. Strongly suspect open-it will either recover some more or drop more and likely disappear when the system goes private. Be interesting to see how many contracts involved-if we ever get the chance to see.

You gotta love this part of the Strategy Description:

Most times use mental stops…Try to limit the max DD to 20% in case of black swan event. I rarely have time to answer questions.

So you’ve got mostly mental stops, he will “try” to limit the dd (or is it up to the subscriber?), and don’t expect any answers to questions! Talk about what has been a very successful bad cop marketing approach! And this is the same guy some time back who got bent out of shape when the forum wasn’t falling over themselves to answer his questions! Which should have gone to Support anyway.

His last Description statement: Please make your subscription decision solely based on the C2 trading records.

His futures trades since auto trading with customers on 6/27 is down about 25%. And C2’s Community Risk Warning did little good for a lot of subscribers. I credit C2 for doing it months ago. It’s worth showing again:

Community Risk Warning

Based on analysis of trading style, and additional community feedback, this strategy exhibits higher risk than is visible in its track record.

Among other things, this strategy exhibits:

  • Hidden Tail Risk. The strategy has hidden “tail risk.” This is the risk of unlikely, but catastrophic losses. Some strategies with tail risk can perform well for long periods of time, even years, but all gains achieved (and much more) can be lost quickly when the unlikely event occurs.

#17

How are you able to tell that Waverunner started autotrading with customers on 6/27?


#18

Go to Waverunner-Trade Record, click on Show Autotrade Data. Note the small red boxes by trade entries, which indicate Autotrade, and can click on those for more info. The earliest date that shows these boxes for both open and close with actual quantities indicates first date for Autotrade, in this case 6/27.


#19

Oh, gotcha. Thanks for the info!


#20

It looks like the system is starting to bounce back. I’m super curious about the trade that had such a huge DD.